Parliamentary budget officer Kevin Page testified at a committee
today that the Department of National Defence withheld information when
he was preparing his controversial report on the costs of the F-35s, and
he later indicated he thinks Canadians were misled about the true costs
of buying the fighter jets.
Opposition MPs, including interim Liberal Leader Bob Rae, reacted to
testimony from Page and other officials at the public accounts committee
meeting by saying the government "lied" to the Canadian people about
the F-35 costs and didn't share its own internal cost estimates with the
public.
During his hour of testimony, Page told MPs he has now learned in the
wake of Auditor General Michael Ferguson's report released in April
that his office didn't get all the information it asked DND for when he
was trying to calculate the full life cycle costs of the planes the
government is considering buying to replace the CF-18 fleet. Page's
report was done in response to a request from the Commons finance
committee.
"From the auditor general's report we've learned that we've received
only partial information with respect to what we call sustainment or on
the operating and support costs," Page said.
When asked why he didn't get everything he asked for, Page responded, "We don’t know the reason for that."
"We also asked for information on their methodology and did not receive it," Page said.
Conservative MP Chris Alexander, parliamentary secretary to Defence
Minister Peter MacKay, had a tense exchange with Page during the meeting
when he challenged the budget officer to explain why he calculated
costs over 30 years while DND uses a 20-year cycle.
"I see actually no logic as a budget officer to use 20 years when we
know that the real life cycle is going to be 30 years, potentially
more," Page said, adding that the CF-18 life cycle is turning out to be
around 40 years.
Public should be given same numbers as cabinet
Just because the government has used the 20-year estimate for decades doesn't mean it's right, Page said.
Alexander suggested Page should be using the same time period as DND
since it is the department buying the plane, but Page shot back that
taxpayers are the ones picking up the tab and that it is his job to
provide independent analysis of government spending.
When he spoke to reporters after his testimony, Page was asked about comments he made on CBC's
The House
on Saturday when he said it looked as if the government kept two sets
of books for F-35 estimates — one for internal use and one for the
public.
Ferguson's report showed that cabinet was told in 2010 the planes
would cost $25 billion. But in response to Page's report in March 2011,
DND said the pricetag was $15 billion. The difference in numbers is what
has prompted opposition MPs to accuse the government of hiding the true
costs of buying the planes.
"I don't think we should be providing different numbers," Page said
Thursday. It would enhance trust in Parliament if the same numbers that
were given to cabinet were given to the public, he said.
When asked if the government wanted Canadians to think the planes would cost less than was internally estimated, Page said yes.
NDP MP Malcolm Allen said after the meeting that Prime Minister
Stephen Harper and MacKay both chose to communicate the lower number to
Canadians.
"They tried to minimize the cost, to make it look as if it was a
better program and a cheaper program than it was. Mr. Page is absolutely
correct," he said.
Rae, who doesn't normally sit on the public accounts committee, said
Harper and his government also chose to attack Page and the opposition
when they said the figure must be higher than the $15 billion instead of
revealing its $25-billion estimate.
"They lied to the people of Canada before the election and they lied
to them during the election about the real cost of the plane," said Rae.
Harper did "not tell the people of Canada the truth that he knew about the potential cost of this project," according to Rae.
In his opening statement Page said he wanted to make it clear that
his office did take operating costs into account when it calculated that
the full life cycle costs for 65 F-35s would be close to $30 billion.
DND officials testified earlier in the week that they didn't think his
report included operating costs when the department responded to it and
gave its $15-billion figure.
Page also said that his office understood it had been given all
relevant information on the life cycle costs from DND, as per the
request from the finance committee, but that "it has since become
evident that the government's public figures did not include components
of full life cycle costs" as required by the motion.
The budget officer also told MPs that the figures in Ferguson's
report, confirmed by DND and its minister, Peter MacKay, bring DND's
estimates for full life cycle costs in line with his own.
Deputy ministers testify again
Page
appeared at the committee for one hour, ahead of the same department
officials who testified on Tuesday and who are back for a second time.
On Tuesday, the deputy minister of the Department of National
Defence, Robert Fonberg, and other DND officials criticized the
methodology Page used in his report. That report sparked controversy
because Page's estimates for buying 65 fighter jets from Lockheed Martin
as part of the U.S.-led Joint Strike Fighter program were more than
double the government's estimates.
Fonberg was asked Thursday to respond to Page's statements earlier in
the morning and he told MPs he stands by his belief that the PBO did
not include operating costs in his calculations. He said DND has found
no evidence that he did and that Page has been asked for clarification
but hasn't provided it yet.
He also told the committee that he's unsure why Page drew the conclusion that he only received partial information from DND.
"To the best of my knowledge we fully responded to the PBO's request," Fonberg said.
Michelle d'Auray, secretary of the Treasury Board, told the committee
that when her department considers requests from the government to buy
new assets, it uses a 20-year timeframe for estimated costs in order to
make a decision.
Treasury Board has not received an approval request for the funds to buy the F-35, she said.
François Guimont, deputy minister of public works and government
services, again expressed his confidence in the new secretariat that is
being set up in response to Ferguson's findings to oversee the purchase
of a new fleet of planes. The government said that DND would continue to
evaluate options for replacing the CF-18s but at the same time it named
the new oversight body the F-35 Secretariat, which opposition MPs said
made it clear the government is intent on buying the Lockeed Martin
model.
Public Works and Government Services Minister Rona Ambrose confirmed
on Wednesday that the government has now dropped "F-35" from the group's
name.
Lt-Gen. André Deschamps, who on Tuesday said the air force is
preparing to acquire F-35s, told MPs that when DND was analysing options
for new planes it looked at what technology is needed to respond to
future threats. He said those threats include the proliferation of
advanced surface-to-air missile systems in some countries, he didn't
name which ones, and said today's aircraft aren't well-equipped to
respond to the "deadly" systems.
FROM CBC NEWS.
